16 comments on “Ancient Farming Mystery: What was going on?

  1. Thank you for the mention and article Sir. It really is intriguing that I am finding so many acres that were obviously utilized yet appear to be ancient with a current small plot scattered here and there among this massive acreage.

    Please do jump in and help as much as possible because I agree, something just ain’t right. And for the sake of history it really deserves to be investigated deeper! Be patient with me but I will try to collect and share some examples to show what I am seeing. It is very obvious in South America. Just follow any major valley in the Andes from the civilizations on the Western side across to the Amazon. Just about every hillside las trace evidence of very ancient terracing all the way across. much is almost completely gone but still evident.

    The thing that stood out to me was going by the estimated populations of these ancient civilizations there is just much more acreage than they would have required to sustain themselves. The acreage is enough to have had either a huge commodity export capability or the population was much more than we are currently thinking. And we know they were not exporting all this because it is perishable and they really didn’t have the means to transport it long distances before it spoiled. And by foot or small beast of burden they would have needed to consume it before they ever got to where they were going with it. Humans need fuel too.

    And from my fair knowledge of geology most of this appears to have been eroding for a very long time, Not just a few thousand years… But maybe ten thousand years or much more. You really have to look close but it is there and obvious. But from what we are told there were not cultures of this magnitude that long ago. Now recently we have found that not only in the Andes and the SA deserts, but apparently most of the Amazon had an immense amount of acreage being cultivated at one time.

    I even found traces of ancient terracing in the mountains just north from the very tip of South America where supposedly no one has ever lived, Let alone practice agriculture. Yet around some of the mountain lakes there are definitely traces of terracing. My first suspicions about all these finds were skeptical. That more than likely I was just looking at natural geological layers of stone. But I started following these hill faces for hours. What I found was unnatural walls across the grain at 90 degrees creating similar sized boxes. Nature doesn’t do this.

    This is typical of South American terracing and where it should not belong. Then I noticed that this terracing was also across the grain of the rocks which were more vertical where they were bare without growth. Then I follow some of these along their courses and realized these “natural layers” of stone were absolutely level from where they began to were they ended and washed away. So I went back to investigate areas all over the Andes that looked to be naturally layered outcrops of stone following the contour in what might just look like terracing. Guess what I found… These were all absolutely level from beginning to end also, sometimes for almost a mile running at equal distances apart along the contour with long term erosion ravines now cut through them, and almost always a tell tale plot “divider wall” at 90 degrees here and there.

    Bit by bit, trace by trace, I was able to follow these in perfect level and contour with the hillsides. Nature doesn’t do this… When I went to Turkey and China I found evidence of the same. Found traces in the Sahara and the Middle East deserts. We just haven’t seen it yet from the ground and I think it is grossly underestimated in true acreage based on what traces are only visible from the air. Besides what farming cultures we have found and acknowledge, I now see there maybe an even greater number that we have not yet found. It has been a treasure hunt for me to find these traces of agriculture where they should not be!

    Where to start with the count? Maybe with a rational estimate of the ancient agriculture we do know about in arid regions that are no longer there because of uplift “deserting” and long term drought? Then add the traces of what can be found there where they shouldn’t belong we don’t acknowledge.

    I think we might be surprised with this total acreage alone and be even more intrigued… This is the problem, we are just not adding it all up to an overall total. We count each culture as if it were the only one at the time when the total of all cultures based on true acreage need estimates is what needs to be added up. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    • Yes I’d like to see some examples (pics) and I’m sure others here would also. You know I’ve been in fields in the Southwest USA that looked like they were once ancient farmland but no one claims to know if they were or not. But they sure did look like ancient farmlands and these fields were HUGE. I wondered then about how big the population was or why the people were growing so many crops. The nearby ruins certainly did NOT support a large population.

      “And we know they were not exporting all this because it is perishable and they really didn’t have the means to transport it long distances before it spoiled” Or did they??? We’ve been conned into thinking these ancient people were about 1/2 step above our hunter-gatherer ancestors but what if the truth is far, far different? That said, a though just came into my head……the Inca had the paved roads and the wheel yet they did not use the wheel. I’ve often wondered about this. The Inca were not stupid so why did then not employ the wheel to make their work and transportation much easier? Oh there are many theories as to why they didn’t but I’ve wondered if they had some other invention that worked far better than the simple wheel and, thus, the wheel to them was inefficient.

      Recent finds in the Amazon have literally shocked the scientific community as we had no idea people there were farming to such a large extent. I’ve posted a bit about this in the past here. Who were they feeding is the million dollar question.

      “I think we might be surprised with this total acreage alone and be even more intrigued… This is the problem, we are just not adding it all up to an overall total. We count each culture as if it were the only one at the time when the total of all cultures based on true acreage need estimates is what needs to be added up.” —absolutely!!


      • Along the same lines I ran across a fringe character who has claimed similar and as controversial as she is, I think it might deserve more investigation as being possible. Because if the signs are actually there it would be huge in this concept we are playing with here and set a starting point.

        Melani Vermay has claimed that there was once enough agriculture in the Kalahari to feed 6 billion people, and that it was transported by air, or that huge number was local. This along with Tellinger’s 1 million person civilization find (and dating) which you have written about here would be quite an indicator example of the numbers we might be looking at and when.


        So my next step would be to take a look and see if there might be anything to her claims. Apparently her and Tellinger are at odds with each other for some reason. lol But I wouldn’t throw out any possible indicators at this point in the theory. 🙂


  2. Roberto said this:

    “One thing I know about hunter-gatherer and farmer populations is that they don’t waste their time. They can’t afford to as their very survival depends on the efficient use and management of their time. So I don’t think these ancient people were just farming for the hell of it.”

    Absolutely… and CALORIES. Survival depended on a very thin profit margin of calories gained over calories burned while procuring sustenance.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. The Maya long said that they didn’t build the stone cities. That they found them empty and simply moved in a took up residence. They say they don’t know who built them as they were built long before their people came into being. So how long ago are we talking about? Was there a huge global human population prior to the beginning of the last major ice age? And was it that Ice Age that wiped most of those people out? Were they the people doing on this farming globally? And for what reason. Obviously, someone was eating all this food so who was it and where were they? I have a million questions about this now and I’ve been thinking about it and your theory a lot JR. If your mathematical calculations are right then we are talking about a HUGE human population on this planet in the remote past that we know nothing about. A population that approached or surpassed our own today. That is mind blowing to me! And where is the evidence for such a large global population? MOST LIKELY buried under miles of dirt 🙂 We underestimate the power of nature seriously and, very possibly, to our own demise.


  4. The American Indian was not just hunter gatherers but farmers too. they had what they call the “3 sisters”. they were not human, but corn, beans and squash. corn is a grass that needs nitrogen, beans are related to clover and produces nitrogen that the corn, (grass) needs and the corn acts as a pole for the beans to climb. the squash acts as a ground cover shading the ground, reducing evaporation and the squash also has small spines on the leaves and stems which help repel garden pests. so the Indians were farmers and foragers. that makes sense as it improves your ability to procure food especially when nature can through drought or other means can destroy food whether it is grown naturally in the wild or we grew it ourselves. they may not have understood about nutrient exchange in the roots on the microscopic level, but they did know through trial and error what actually did work.

    Liked by 1 person

    • You are absolutely right Randolf. In fact there is very little actually mentioned about how much farming there really was in North America. There was actually more farming in the desert southwest than there is now. Even the pre-deluvian Fremont tribe in Utah was farming extensively long before the later tribes came along to find remains of their previous culture.


  5. Ran across another hint about true population numbers. While this does make the statement that all these “salt kitchens” may not have been used at the same time, this scientist has found 110 of these in just Belize alone. Each was capable of producing enough salt for 7,000 people a year. So just these had the capacity to produce enough salt to supply 770,000 people. What about all the other areas that may have done the same like along the pacific coast and the ancient salt mining in Peru? What were the true population numbers that would create a demand for all this salt?



    • Correction… The capacity was enough to supply 7,000 people A DAY! If they were all up and running at one time that would of course be enough to supply 770,000 people A DAY!

      I hope it’s not just me… But I find the demand for that much salt absolutely incredible! And their finds indicate most of it was used to salt fish. That shows a huge demand for just the one commodity of salted fish!


      • It sure raises another little side note curiosity… What species of fish were these? What species of fish could supply that sort of huge demand? It would have to be something huge yield like Salmon or Sea Bass which go upstream in freshwater rivers to spawn (did the Gulf once have Salmon?), or deep sea schools caught in mass in the Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico. This could point to a much much more prevalent and advanced seafaring culture than thought!

        Liked by 1 person

  6. Ancient deforestation for agriculture of Central Africa during the Holocene.

    “Even in the climatically stable Holocene, there appears to have been periods of substantial forest retreat. In particular, there is evidence for a period of major forest loss between 3,000 and 2,000 y ago [termed the Late Holocene rainforest crisis (LHRC) (2)]. Attributing the cause of this decline is complicated by the fact that this period coincided with major expansion of Neolithic and early Iron Age farmers southward from the Nigeria/Cameroon border regions into western Central Africa. Did the farmers take advantage of a forest retreat driven by climate drying, or were they the primary cause of the forest loss? In recent years, there has been a vigorous debate on the cause of the LHRC. Now, Garcin et al. (3) provide new data and an unexpected new insight, presenting strong evidence that there was no strong drying event, and therefore suggesting that it was direct deforestation that caused this retreat of the Central African rainforests.”


    Liked by 1 person

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