24 comments on “Out of Africa…Asia…America?

  1. I dug into this a bit yesterday and realized that the fact that Homo Erectus from 150 kya was found in Indonesia might help support this theory. Indonesia is the opposite direction from Africa so this would mean an OOA migration would have had come through Asia on the way to Indonesia. But instead it looks like a migration may have been from Asia split both to the Southwest and Southeast right?

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    • Very possible that a migration did take such a route JR. The more we discover the more it appears that there were numerous migration all over and in every direction. We used to think that human migration and evolution was simple but the more we discovered the more we began to realize that the whole affair is anything BUT simple LOL.

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      • So you didn’t tell me that The San Pedro River Valley in your backyard has the most Clovis finds in North America. This is a huge indicator that Clovis may have migrated from South America North through Mexico and dispersed from there! Everything is adding up to a first migration from the tip of South America again.

        I think there WAS a land bridge (Since man can’t float of course) from Asia to New Zealand across Antarctica and as we know to South America BEFORE the Deluge. I wonder if there have been any oldowan style lithics found in Southern South America? I think during or before the first migration to Australia they continued on to South America also.

        I know we have covered this before but finding out the more prevalent density of Clovis along the San Pedro is a huge tell tale factor in possible origins and dispersal! Just because lithic styles are different in Southern South America doesn’t mean a Pre-Clovis style couldn’t change along the way as they headed north!

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        • I have a theory that may support this. I just went to double check but I think the Mountain Ranges that run from Mexico up along both sides of the San Pedro Valley Created an isthmus that connected with the Tonto Natl Forrest area. The Gulf of California and the Gulf of Mexico coast lines were once on both sides of this range. The western coastline would have reached all the way into Phoenix and Tucson.

          This would have created a bottle neck for these peoples to be forced to use coming north and just might explain the density of Clovis in that particular area. Look at it on Earth and replace all the light tan towards both the east and west of these ranges with with water and it can be visualized as an isthmus through that area all the way from the Tonto to the tip of South America. 🙂

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          • I’ve heard a similar theory about this before. Not unreasonable and maybe even very likely. The land masses and oceans were different in those distant times and not like they are today which is something many people don’t realize. The land masses could have been closer to each other as well. One thing is certain and that is prehistoric humans travelled extensively more than once to every place on the planet. Question is how did they do it? Some walked. Others sailed. Our ancestors were far from being the brutes we’ve made them out to be.

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          • Like I’ve said I’ve heard a similar theory before and you may well be right JR. I have long noticed that in the land below the mountain ranges (the bottom land) it looks like a sea bed and you can find shell fossils there too which is proof that the area was once covered by water. I have a couple of good specimens of such shells found in these “bottom lands.” I have also long believed that migrations came not only via the Beringia Landbridge in Alaska but also that there had to be some route in South America. I’ve wrote about this before and noted that some of the Native people at the tip of South America appear to be very much Homo erectus hybrids.

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            • We are on the same page then. I think there were two migrations, first from South America and second across the strait. They met in the middle… North America. The pyramids in South America were built BEFORE the deluge that came just after the end of the last last inter-glacial and before the last ice age. There is a lag between when all the factors apply pressure on temperature and when this temp finally makes changes because of mass thermal effect. There was a reset that threw very advanced man back to Clovis technology out of survival needs.

              Clovis points are not basic sharp tools, They are works of art that became normal as everyday productive tools. “Works of art” are keywords here. They were historians who went after this lithic style from the start with advanced knowledge of how to work stone. I think they might have been advanced and then were forced back into the “caveman age” for survival reasons. And I think you have mentioned this possibility before. More and more it is starting to all fit together and become a very viable possibility.

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              • Every so often SOMETHING happens on this planet that knocks our collective asses back to the STONE AGE….literally. I think the Hopi Prophecies pretty much nail the REAL history of humanity with their “Five Worlds.” Man advances and builds great civilizations……man gets greedy and selfish and his civilization is destroyed via mother nature. And the beat goes on………………..

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        • Well yes it is LOL. People find all sorts of stuff along the San Pedro and area. In fact that is where I found the Oldowan lithic tools 🙂 Humans have followed along the San Pedro for aeons now and you may well be right in that it may have been a major migration route from the tip of South America northward. There were many land bridges. Some we know of and others are yet to be discovered. One connecting SA to New Zealand via Antarctica is not unreasonable.

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          • OK so I’m trying to figure out what the random round pits are on the west side? Most appear to be too large for pit houses and there is no build up of any dirt that might have been pushed out. Looks like a bombing practice range? No pattern like quarries would have and many are not located at the end of washes like they are catch ponds. Strange. lol

            In the mean time I ran across someone on another site who apparently found Oldowan/Acheulean tools just above the water line of an ancient lake only 60 miles from here. Sounds like as soon as it gets a little cooler we will be making a short rockhounding trip. 🙂

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            • They could well be from USAF bombing practice in the past. Old timers around here tell me that the USAF used to just go out and practice bombing wherever LOL. Until recently I didn’t know that there are still remains of a USAF fighter jet on Mt Lemmon northeast of Tucson from the 1960s era. They left the wreckage there and never removed it so it can still be seen along the Butterfly Trail today. Back then they didn’t do things like today so this is no surprise. Also there are a lot of old mines around here and pits that were dug by miners looking for ore. When they didn’t find anything they didn’t bother to fill in the pits but just moved on.

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            • That should be an interesting exploration. Most of what I have found which I believe to be Oldowan tools has been found in old river or lake beds where they were washed down by water. I know of many people across North and South America as well as Mexico that have found such lithics. They do NOT appear to be geofacts either. I think they are the real deal and proof that ancient human ancestors WERE in the Americas despite what the OOA crowd claims to the contrary! And, in addition, let us not forget that one of the most prominent paleoanthropologists in history left his work in Africa and came to the US fully believing he’d find artifacts and fossil remains like he’d found in Africa for years. He ws Louis Leakey. I do NOT think Leakey would have done this had he not had proof or believed ancient humans were not in the Americas. And to top it off he went to Calico Hills lol. We need to DIG DEEPER!!!

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              • The tools I mentioned were found on the shoreline just across the “lake” from Calico. 🙂 Let’s see… I was talking to Donnan about this and he split on me. Haven’t heard back in a month or so since I shared this possibility. Apparently he is on the suppression gravy train like all the others.

                How cool is that? to be in an association connection to make THAT particular judgment? 🙂 Nice guy face to face though…

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                • Most of his type are and in fact they’ll tell you anything they THINK you want to hear LOL. Fortunately there is now a growing amount of evidence that is going to end up turning everything upside down when it comes to human evolution and migration et al. And I can hardly wait until the old worn our theories (OOA) are hauled off to the dump where they belong!! 🙂

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                  • Part of it is my fault… I hit him with too much “fringe” in the first two emails to each other. Went downhill from there. He limited the conversation to Moche pottery when I was going back to the first peoples there prior to the Moche. I think I went beyond the “niche” he feels comfortable with discussing. I wanted to discuss the whole Bible when he only wanted to discuss one new testament passage. Know what I mean? He is just not as broad minded and open as you are my friend… 🙂

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  2. I can’t find the PLOS ONE article but found this interesting…

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170830141253.htm

    And on a different topic is Neanderthal Glue…

    https://phys.org/news/2017-08-neanderthals.html

    On the glue thing, I have to say it was likely to have been pine pitch rather than Birch, Pine Pitch oozes out everywhere and does not require extraction of any kind. Fire cooked Pine Pitch is like epoxy when it hardens. We have a few tools in our collection including an atlatl that was once mistakenly identified as a hook to pull Chuckwalla lizards out of crevasses. Maybe dual purpose but definitely created as an atlatl as a priority.

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  3. I never believed the OOA theory, basically because even not knowing a thing about human evolution, fossils, DNA or genetics, if you think twice about it for more than obvious reasons it makes no sense. But the mainstream still refuses to talk against it under the label of, racism? Why? Why is it racism to say or even probe that humans come from basically everywhere? I could say that the current position is just Afrocentrism, but of course, I am not a known scientist and I am specially not a scientist going with the mainstream, so what I think doen’t matter. Well I may not be a scientist at all, I am a common person who loves science, but I still think, we all do!!

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    • Good morning Jenny. just wanted to thank you for coming and participating! I am like you and not an accredited scientist either. I just grew up with a love for history and was fortunate enough to have a pioneer Grandmother who was a dedicated old school Archaeologist / Anthropologist who had many friends who were the same. So even though my love of history is in any and every field, these two particular fields are my favorites to learn about and discuss. 🙂

      Please keep coming and participating with us! I personally appreciate it very much, There are several others in here but lately it looks like more important priorities have pulled us all away and we have been unable to participate as much as we would like. But bear with us, we will be putting in more as things slow down for everyone a bit. 🙂

      But also like you, History is of the up most importance for all of us too! History repeats it’s self and it is so important to learn from both the successes and failures throughout history! Besides… it is just plain old INTERESTING… lol

      I have some to share about what you stated in your comment here but will have to come back later to add my two cents in agreement with what you shared. Roberto knows him from the Ancient Origins site also, but I will share the theories of Clyde when I get caught up. Clyde is an interesting case related directly to what you said here.

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    • Short answer: Because the OOA is a POLITICAL AGENDA. There’s plenty of growing evidence to debunk the entire theory but that evidence is ignored blatantly by the mainstream. Now they play the “race card” against those that oppose the OOA to silence them. Your opinion DOES matter just like the rest of us. As we make more and more finds outside of Africa it is becoming more and more difficult for the OOA crowd to protect their PC theory. They are now getting very hostile to we who oppose them. Too bad LOL!! Holding the theory or belief that humans evolved many places and just not in Africa is NOT racist. It’s a FACT!! And the evidence says it is so.

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