45 comments on “Violent Memories and the Civil War Era in the Southwest

  1. well i think he is comparing the enslavement, internment, and genocide of the Jews during the nazi holocaust, to the enslavement of the African, the internment and genocide of the American Indian. let’s, for my own amusement, throw in the “union wars” in Butte MT, the Appalachia coal mines, etc… when the cavalry were called in to quell the uprising. didn’t you know, that’s how you spread democracy. now we use drones and drop bombs on countries we aren’t even at war with. the people driving this whole crapshow, all of them, good Christian folks, they are!? i apologize, i’m siding with the underdog here.

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  2. i want to say this, the only difference between what the nazis did to the Jews and what the “white supremacists” did to the Africans and Indians is they hadn’t invented giant ovens …yet.

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    • This reminded me of the Spanish Conquistador Guzman who was with Cortez in Mexico. Guzman and his men went out to the surrounding Aztec communities and conducted nothing short of wholesale slaughter! Mounted on their horses they grasp Aztec infants from the arms of their mothers and threw them against stone walls busting open their skulls! Why? To get the natives to submit to the Spanish Crown and Christianity. And then I thought of the Catholic Friars and some of the tyranny they carried out during the time. All this was nothing short of the wholesale slaughter of Native America from the tip of Argentina to the northern stretches of Canada.

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  3. Of course there was wrong committed throughout history by cultures and society of the times. But in all this I think it is important to maintain perspective and find these monuments not as examples of grand achievements, even though society thought so at the time, but as reminders of a time when society was wrong. Once it starts where does it stop? You can bet there will be collateral damage and all history will be vandalized and erased without discretion or just reason. We need these reminders to gauge if society has improved for the better or not.

    Without examples to refer back to, we have no clue what not to do going forward. ISIS has the perspective that what they are doing is the right thing to do, but is it? They even ended up destroying even their own heritage and history. A precedent like this opens the door to the total destruction of history altogether. Washington DC has 3 times more statues dedicated to historical black figures than it does white figures. Would it be right to destroy these as justified free speech and opinion too?

    How can we have a future with no mistakes if we wipe out history and the mistakes made along with it? I’m sure that in our current society Kit Carson is no longer a hero to 99 out of a 100 people. But should all traces be removed? What will stimulate the young mind into asking “Dad? who was Kit Carson?” so that the record of what really happened can be shared. Out of sight, Out of mind, and that in the end will be an even bigger mistake.

    What’s next? All the Spanish missions that remain as a testament to the wrong doing for many? Hajji Ali’s gravestone because even though he was a Muslim he helped the U.S. Army to fight the Indians? Everything needs to remain as is and it is up to us to see them as heroes or doers of wrong. But without these to stimulate the mind and act as reminders of when a society was wrong we will have erased history and future generations will forget and once again repeat the same mistakes over.

    All history is important, only perspectives change, and every bit of history must be preserved right or wrong. Those who destroyed the Library of Alexandria at the time and the Serapeum later thought they were doing the correct thing too. Can you just imagine what we would know now both right and wrong if it had not been so? If the record is to be corrected about Kit Carson add to history rather take away from it. Erect a monument to those who had the forethought to relocate and save the four horned sheep for future generations to come. These brave souls were the real heroes.

    This whole thing is being twisted out of context in an attempt to erase history with intent. I could look at any monument and invent a reason it should come down just to satisfy my own selfish perspective. The Civil War Monuments should remain as what they were intended to be… an example of our god given right to sovereignty against an oppressive government. They were never intended to be something honoring slavery. This has been twisted, they were not defending their right to be slave owners.

    At the time they themselves had become slaves to an oppressive central government that was greatly hampering their states rights in much bigger matters totally independent of the slavery issue. History has been twisted and will soon be erased justified by a reason and distraction totally out of context from why the statues were erected in the first place. “He served our state’s rights well but at the same time he was wrong for supporting slavery, as was the whole of society at the time.” should be the true perspective in this.

    For the sake of history lest we forget…

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  4. i have to laugh because if the mascot horse of the USC Trojans name is Traveler and someone finds this offensive because Lee’s horse happened to be named Traveller, well that’s a big stretch because one has nothing to do with the other.

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    • Sure makes the point about how silly and lacking all common sense this has all become. The real enemies in all this are the World Banking Families who like during the Civil War, are once again trying to divide the country. In the bigger picture it is all about the money and nothing else. Everyone is being distracted, manipulated and exploited with historical banking tactics that go back to the day stated in the Bible when Jesus was supposed to have chastised the money changers. This is why we must never allow history, good or bad, to be erased! But now it is time to wake up and recognize it for what it really is, we need to stop sweating the small stuff and go after the big fish who are behind it all.

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      • I do not think common sense exists any longer. By transforming us into “consumer machines” we have lost our common sense and our humanity.

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    • Kind of like the ESPN sportscaster named Robert Lee who was put off air because of his name. Ridiculous. We have carried our fear of offeding to the extreme now. What will the end be?

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      • I added a link to that above also. But there have been even more irrational examples of this in the past months, like “the eclipse is racist”. lol But I just grabbed the examples from the last few days. You are right and I agree… What’s next and when will it stop for the sake of rationality?

        By the way… Good to read you again Rob. 🙂

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  5. This entire affair reminds me of a magician. “Watch my left hand and pay no attention to my right.” The insignificant is being focused upon while what really matters (ie: the REAL crimes of the criminal banking families) are being ignored. And the sheeple STILL just don’t get it!! Amazing!!!

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    • You are right on the money with this. With all the indoctrination and dumbing down of the last two generations it is easier for them to manipulate the masses. And this is why history is so important, if you remove the history then it never happened before and it can be twisted into whatever they like.

      Here’s a prime example that may have even not happened and not gone any further if REAL history was being taught and shared….

      This all started with the Confederate Flag and snowballed into this mass hysteria against the Confederate slave ownership that is now being used against Trump and the Republicans.

      So let’s take the Confederate flag and chase down the real “suppressed” history behind it. First the Dixie flag was never the flag representing the whole of the confederacy, it was the flag used by just Robert E Lee’s regiment, the confederate flag representing the whole of the south was a totally different flag at the time. The image of the Dixie Flag being used to represent and glorify the south has been falsely implanted into our minds by movies and images about the civil war.

      The use of this particular flag was dropped for many many years after the civil war was over until it was revived and adopted for use again later on by another political party. This political party was a splinter party of the DEMOCRAT party labelled as the Dixiecrats. The Dixiecrats did indeed support and represent anti-black groups like the KKK. So in this connection with this party there is a legitimate argument for this particular flag to represent white discrimination against blacks, But this had absolutely nothing to do with the civil war at all and it had absolutely nothing to do with republicans at all. It came about much later and has been twisted out of context, fault and timeline.

      Now the movement has been picked up and championed by white democrats against republicans when it was white democrats who enslaved the blacks in the first place. Republicans are the party that saved their asses and fought to end slavery except for one main key figure who we should ALL be mad at… Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln did something far worse than he slavery of the blacks, just like how the banking families transferred debt at the time he transferred slavery from the blacks to everyone of us through the allowance of fractional banking and currency manipulation.

      EVERYONE OF US are now enslaved as indentured servants by currency, taxes and debt. Should he be defaced or removed because of this? NO, let him sit there staring across the compound at the federal reserve and forever be forced to witness the huge injustice, crime and mistake he committed against everyone of us equally as the people of this nation. If he is erased, so will the history of his crime be erased. In no way does he deserve to have his criminal record cleared or expunged.

      And the word expunged is by very definition what we DO NOT want to do with these historical monuments good or bad.

      Main Entry:ex£punge
      Pronunciation:ik-*sp*nj
      Function:transitive verb
      Inflected Form:ex£punged ; ex£pung£ing
      Etymology:Latin expungere to mark for deletion by dots, from ex- + pungere to prick — more at PUNGENT
      Date:1602

      1 : to strike out, obliterate, or mark for deletion
      2 : to efface completely : DESTROY
      3 : to eliminate (as a memory) from one’s consciousness
      –ex£pung£er noun

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  6. I see this as one more step in the degeneration of society. We are now a society of extremes. It’s now either—or, black—white. Sadly that doesn’t apply to morals. There is increasingly very little middle ground and through the whole of it people become more and more focused on the small things while attaching different meaning to symbols for good or bad. Symbols such as the confederate statues can be taken as reminders of achievement OR as reminders of what not to be, what not to do.

    When I see a confederate symbol it reminds me of how split apart our nation was and how we almost ceased to be a nation at all. They remind me of the suffering, anger, and death that was involved. So I take these symbols as reminders of what we should never do or become again. I do not see them as statues of “heroes.” People like Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis were rebels…traitors to the Union. At least that is how the Union thought of them.

    This is, however, the smaller picture and as we focus on these things we ignore the bigger picture. American society is facing GREAT problems today. We are a nation and a society DIVIDED not united. We focus on our divisions and that serves to only divide us further. Those divisions are centered around race, religion, politics, skin color, ethnicity, etc. Meanwhile the people with the power and the money (the 1%) fleece us and play us for fools and sadly we are proving them RIGHT! They’ve employed an ages-old military strategy called “Divide & Conqueror” By keeping us divided along ANY lines and by thus keeping us at each others throats we will not focus on the 1% who control 99% of the power and wealth. Thus, their position is secure because they know should We The People ever truly unite it would spell the end of their power rather quickly.

    I fear we are moving in one of two directions. Either we are moving into anarchy or we are moving into a direction of control by a radicalized far right. Either way it will split our nation like never before. We will see oppression on a scale that none have seen in modern times. Life at the extremes is never good and never ends well, frankly.

    What this nation desperately needs is a Great Uniter. Someone who will unite our people beyond the lines of religion, race, and politics. Sadly, I see NONE upon the horizon and what I do see is our so called “leaders” doing their best to foster MORE division. There is a hidden agenda and so far that agenda has worked perfectly thanks MOSTLY to US.

    It takes TWO to tango and TWO to love and forgive. Perhaps we would be wise to remember that. We are at a crossroads now. What do we choose? The LOW road that we’ve been on OR the HIGH road that we can make the conscious choice to walk upon?

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    • Absolutely Rob! very well stated. And you are right, at some point we must take some personal responsibility for our own mistakes that help bolster this. Taking the high road was exactly my thought when the KKK made the decision to hold a “free speech” rally. This was a direct “tit for tat” action that they knew would help aggravate the situation so they were just as wrong and ignorant as the left protests with this.

      No one would have ever have supported this or even paid any public attention to them ten years ago. Now defenders of “Free speech” on the right are supporting them against the leftist groups. At some point we need to recognize that two wrongs do not make a right. And just because you happen to have a license to drive does not mean it is prudent or wise to drive yourself off a cliff just to exercise and prove your right to drive yourself off a cliff…

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  7. I realize I am rambling here BUT……………………

    The fall of the Roman Empire (Western society at the time) resulted in the Dark Ages. Chaos ensued and barbarian rule was the name of the game. Frankly, I think we are headed down that same road once again! All of the signs I am seeing indicate to me that a new Dark Age is dawning.

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    • This is very likely Rob, especially if a natural disaster were to happen about now. But it is truly fairly easy to predict what will happen next if one were to follow the history of money and the 1%. The cartel has been using the very same tactics for several thousand years now and will repeat the same tactics over again when the time is right. The great depression was a dark age and was implemented by design. And if it were not for a president who now cannot be “handled” we would be in another great depression and dark age by now.

      Trump threw a huge wrench into the works for those who “handle” both sides of the aisle and the world. Here is an interesting write up that puts the true situation and deception by design into perspective. It reminds me that we are all just part of a deadly global game of “Risk”, remember playing this board game? I do and if looked at from this strategy game perspective it all makes perfect sense what will happen on the next roll of the dice and the next player’s turn of manipulation.

      http://www.xat.org/xat/moneyhistory.html

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  8. I think every historian from every background should be very very strongly criticizing this door to destroy history having been opened no matter who did it. When we go back and study ancient conflicts between cultures and societies do we really care who was right and who was wrong? Historians need to defend how much more important and rational it is that these artifacts do remain so that the era can be studied in the best interest and education of all present and future societies and cultures.

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    • You’re right. Historians should be outraged. There’s no difference between what these people are doing and what the Taliban and ISIS do to their monuments. They are attempting to erase history! That’s part of the Communist agenda. That is exactly what the elites want, a global Communist regime with themselves at the top. Two things have stood in their way, however. America and the American male. That is why for many decades now an all out war has been waged against American culture and the American male. They are attempting to erase American history and rewrite it and they are attempting to effectively neuter the American male, feminize him, and put him into subjection. So far their plan appears to be working amazingly well. Oh but wait…..what to do about those ROGUE American males who refuse to be feminized????? They are now the ONLY thing standing between the global DEGENERATES and the achievement of their global Commie agenda!!!

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      • I know one thing… I am really getting tired of them trying to make me feel subhuman and wrong for being NORMAL. But wait… the term “Not Normal” is hate speech. Justin Trudeau shared a term the other day that might just replace the terminology that is now considered hate speech, “irregular”. lol

        I am proud to be a “regular” guy compared to those “irregular” guys.

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  9. after reading that money history, i totally get the cliche “money is the root of all evil”. making the true axis of evil, not poor countries like Afghanistan, or N. Korea, or Iraq, but the rockefellers, rothchilds, warburgs, astors, morgans, kennedys, and koch bros. might as well top off that crap-heap with the queen of england and the catholic church. oh yeah i almost forgot all those whiney, runny nosed hand puppets in washington. i may have missed some evil-doers, but close enough for government work. now i see why some municipalities make it illegal to grow your own food. now they have commissions on what drugs we should be taking, like statins, and if you don’t take them you are labeled in your medical records as “non-compliant” i know i am, i have seen it myself. and when you ask an intelligent question about anything you get a dumb look and even more scare tactics in order to make comply. the up-sell, be it major surgery or unneeded toxins like statins. also there is no such thing as “bad cholesterol”, that is a scare tactic. only bad diet and lifestyle choices, and the evil drug pusher, masquerading as healthcare professionals benefit from it. ignorance is bliss, because after educating myself i’m pissed off now.

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    • Welcome to the Club of Truth 🙂 Regarding cholesterol…….the BRAIN needs cholesterol to function efficiently and when it doesn’t have it it become inefficient. Are statins designed to make us dumb? That explains the lack of common sense and ignorance in the world today. It also explains the now blatant degeneration of human society. 🙂

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      • The human brain MUST have cholesterol in order to function properly. Without it the brain becomes increasingly dysfunctional. I cannot help but notice that since statins have been in use on a large scale it correlates to the growing ignorance we see Western society today. Coincidence? I think NOT!

        The study you mention was carried out by the University of Copenhagen in Denmark. Now they are claiming that not only is “bad” cholesterol bad for you but so are high levels of the “good” cholesterol. So now they are about to launch the double-whammy at us? Most likely.

        In my opinion this is just more JUNK SCIENCE!! Higher mortality rate? Likely that is due the the people of the West and their obsession with engaging in as little physical activity as possible in combination with the POISONS in our foods and drinking water!! There are the REAL culprits!!!

        Who financed this study? Well I don’t want to be a name dropper BUT………..I’m sure if you researched who financed it deep enough it would link to some org tied to George Soros. Soros is the hitman for the global order IMO. He’s their public face IMO. He’s the commanding general in their war against humanity and particularly WESTERN HUMANITY. But don’t be surprised by this as Soros has a long, long history of being a traitor to his own kind.

        For example, did you know he grew up in Hungary during the Nazi occupation? You might also wish to know that even though he was a boy he helped the Nazi’s identify the Jews in the town he lived in. He’d simply point them out and the Nazis would take care of them! He was a child so he was never brought up on war crimes but he SHOULD have been. So he came to America and made billions and now he carries out his treason against humanity on a global scale. IMO he is the most dangerous man alive on the planet today!!

        Sorry for the rant but I DETEST the man completely!!

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        • Yep, very familiar with old Georgie boy. Been after him for at least 10 years now. Even back when it was all a crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Funny thing about those theories… they always come true at some point. And I think those with any intelligence are starting to finally realize this fact. Soros is tied directly with the Bilderbergers. I can prove that this last huge public exposure and attention to George’s games was me, I was lucky to find a few very timely opportunities to start the ball rolling on twitter. I planted the seed that is now giving him fits with this new found exposure and attention. 🙂

          You know, I mentioned how it is all like a big game of Risk. I think the game of risk could be a very educational tool to expose the true world agenda and how it works if updated to current situations. So I loaded a website online game of risk on my server to try out yesterday. The built in game parameter setup is giving me some trouble so I am going to have to go do it manually which will take some time.

          The code project has been dead for awhile but I am reaching out to the original author in hopes he would be gracious enough to help me adapt the script code to current states, rulers, and realities. There are other similar games out there, but unfortunately they are all local host games and this is the only web hosted version I could find. I have been looking for years for a possible educational game to help wake people up. People like games and if they are visually stimulated they can learn from them.

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      • J.R., are these people more of the axis of evil i mentioned? they are a rather diverse group of people. several different Jewish folks, some Arabs and Indians, from India. some (white) 4% Neanderthal Europeans, Japanese and some Chinese folks too. It is a sad day for everybody today, no matter who you are or where you came from, out of Africa, North or South America, out of Australia, or Pangaea…

        History is in the making, it now proves that you can’t trust anyone, anywhere, anymore. not even MY own kin, the (white) 4% Neanderthal European. again the whole “white supremacy” thaang is a sham. they are AALLL in it together! i apologize for being so politically incorrect, but my culture has conditioned me to distrust ALL of those minorities mentioned, now i can’t trust my own kin, those F*#@$&G talking white monkeys out of Europe! they make me ashamed of who i am and where i come from!!

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        • They are representatives of all nations playing this game of risk. They have absolutely no racial problems but creating them is indeed profitable. They only speak the common global language, This language dialect is called MONEY. Ever wonder why Switzerland was allow to remain neutral and unmolested though all the wars? This is where they all bank, every one of them. This is where they come once a year to roll the dice to see where we are all going next with no loyalties except to the all mighty god MONEY. This is where they decide to make the most profitable loans in the direction to make the most profit.

          They are the Bilderbergs, they are the warmongering enslavers, They are the ones who loan money to BOTH sides and profit from BOTH. This list are just the Sargents at Arms at the door. This all goes back to royal blood in the 13th century and never has stopped, we are all still subjects of the Crown and this group. And they are really having a problem with our new president who is too ignorant to quite understand how the game has been played without fail for the last 700 years. 🙂

          Good…

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          • And this explains America’s obsession with the Queen of England. She’s not our queen but to listen to some people and to note the coverage she gets on American TV you’d never know it. You’d think we were still just an English colony! I can tolerate her but I sure as hell can’t tolerate her retarded son and heir Prince Charles. This man is a complete IDIOT! The royals of Europe learned long, long ago that those who control the money control the world and they’ve played that game of “risk” extremely well for hundreds of years now.

            One thing I don’t see included in the list is the Vatican. Did they manage to escape notice? I am absolutely astounded that the Roman Catholic Church even still exists in light of all of the sexual abuse allegations made against it. Sorry but if I had a youth I sure as hell would not leave them alone with a priest or nun!! AS far as I can see when the Roman Empire fell this church simply picked up where the empire left off. The pope is Caesar Augustus and the Cardinals are the Imperial Senate. Different faces but SAME game. And we THINK we have advanced and evolved? LMAO I think not!!
            We’ve just been played for FOOLS for the past 700 plus years!!!

            end of rant………………………… 🙂

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            • Absolutely! The Vatican Bank is the oldest institution to first gain control of the known world though debt and fractional reserve banking practices. But of course for all these years it has been supported for “Humanitarian reasons and agenda”. False… It never had any intentions to help the poor, it is designed to control and enslave the poor through debt. This is still the practice with all these world banking institutions. Like they say… “Just follow the money”. 🙂

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        • They are even in our browsers and PCs Roberto… This is why at the think tank we were all good at capturing screen shots and videos. We had to, we would find something they forgot to hide and then the next trip to the link it was gone. We had one guy who provided his own personal server for everyone to upload these files into. It started with one and ended up being three servers stored full before it was over with. He “disappeared” and it is all gone now. History had been successfully eliminated forever…

          Two days ago I was digging through my sticky notes for the evidence I documented years ago when my own server got hacked by high profile entities. I found it and then buried it again where I knew I could find it to refer to in a post I was creating. I foolishly left my phone tethered to my computer all night. When I fired it up the next morning all my sticky notes had been rearranged and the one which had this information was on top again, But my evidence had now been deleted from that particular note. Everything else unimportant was still there but the important stuff was now gone.

          This has happened a couple times now. Always after I go visit a site like the one above sharing information about who the real entities are behind all this. I have it backed up though, thumb drives are my friend. 🙂 But here’s something that might really interest you in particular… This is also happening to “Fringe” historical, archaeological and anthropology sites and info. The closer you get to what might be reality the faster it disappears or is blocked with “Browser and certificate issues”. This may be why I am having problems here but not at Cafe Philos and other WP blogs. 🙂

          I think the browser problem may be politically based.

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          • Could be JR. I put nothing past the people who wish to hide the REAL story of human evolution and history. The OOA is so political now that it’s unbelievable. But here’s a FACT………….

            Despite where we came from or despite our evolution or lack thereof, there IS something DIFFERENT about humans that sets us apart from all other creatures on this planet AND our ancient human ancestors. Let them stick that in their academic smoke pipes LMAO!! And they know this is so also btw 🙂

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  10. So I got the new issue of Smithsonian rag yesterday and this one is chocked full of liberal indoctrination. Apparently they are absolutely willing to sacrifice history to appease the political correctness agenda. It is so sad to see a historical institute bend and support a current movement so hell bent on destroying history. I am so pissed I just cancelled my subscription and emailed them why.

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    • That’s the thing about today. Everything is political now. Truth has been cast aside even further away in favor of the PC bullshit. They keep it up and soon no one will remember our real history but instead will believe some fantasy laced heavily with PC poison!!

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      • And this is why I work so hard at trying to correct political untruths. What kind of false reality are my Grandchildren going to grow up into? All this has happened before many times and is just as ignorant as the Christian Kit Carson wanting to wipe out everything “indian” including the indian in their “indigenous” sheep. When real history proves the sheep actually came from Christian Spain in the first place. It was ignorant PC correctness that was twisted away from reality and real history.

        I think I mentioned this before but the problem is not so much an idea or sentiment, It is when the idea or sentiment is enacted with extremism. It is all of it or none of it, there is no rational balance or fair compromise and all parties are guilty of this. All Humans are guilty of this. Extremism is man’s greatest historical fault and crime. Based on real history we should know better by now. Everything has to be a radical extreme shark feeding frenzy and this is the problem.

        But know what? Throughout history It’s always been political, and it’s always been extreme, we have not yet learned one thing from our past and applied it in the right direction. I have a lot of respect for those doctrines who revere historical truth, education, and tradition, as a guide for future rational common sense direction and decisions.

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