27 comments on “Humans In N. America 100k Years Earlier!!

    • Absolutely! But the PC machinery is already in motion to suppress this discovery so don’t be surprised if it “magically disappears” or the dating is “re-dated” to something like 13 kya.

      On of the criticisms being leveled is “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” and “no human bones have been found at the site.” Seriously? If extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence then I assume the opposite is also true. And just why would one expect to find ancient human ancestors burials and bones at an obvious Mastadon kill site??? Of course there aren’t any AHA remains at the site but I sure bet there are some NEARBY!!

      Yet another cover-up in progress……………..

      Like

      • I was thinking that too, if they widened the dig they would find more at this same level. Maybe even the “smoking gun” Bones, Lithics and COPROLITES. Did you see the one I posted on my site for you about Coprolite DNA yet? This will be very significant in it’s self! 🙂

        Like

          • Thank you for your time to participate both here and on my site and email this morning Roberto. I am trying to keep up and return the favor and replies, but the wind is blowing and my internet connection has been absolutely horrendous. These 3-5 minute page changes are killing me! lol

            Like

    • I know it’s not that important or significant to this discussion but it is Important to me. In my first comment here I stated that this time period was during the last glacial maximum and Ice age. I was polar opposite WRONG and need to clarify it.

      This was at the height of the warmest of four interglacial periods in the last 350 thousand years and before the last Ice age even began. We are right now in the very same situation today going into the next Ice age Glacial period.

      Like

  1. Wouldn’t it be cool if those who are funding started to say “Only if you are going to go look for the 130,000 year old stuff”? It would all change then. With this dating technique I wonder how many other debunked sites can now be re-dated to support the original claims.

    Like

    • Oh there are plenty of sites that would fall right in line with the San Diego timeline of 130 kya including the one near Puebla, Mexico that was shut down and now has a house and yard sitting atop that site. We just cannot have any prehistoric hominid species being in the Americas prior to the arrival of the Paleo-Indians 14 kya. Why that would upset everything and negate the work of many a researcher.

      I’m sure they’ll come up with something and the site will be redated to within the 14,000 year bracket. Or it will be deemed “insignificant” like the Calico Hills site where “mother nature” created all those “geofacts” that sure as hell look like ARTIFACTS! And, yet, researchers just can’t understand why the general public don’t by their wares!

      Like

  2. Here’s a bit more info on the Cerutti Mastadon Site in San Diego, CA:

    The site was excavated by Paleontologist Dr. Thomas Demere in 1992/93. The site is named after Richard Cerutti another Paleontologist from the San Diego Natural History Museum. Ceutti was the person who actually discovered the site suring a freeway expansion project on the SR 54 highway. Researchers originally found cobbles (rocks) and broken mastodon bones all lying together at the site. Uranium-thorium dating was applied to the bones and they yielded an approximate date of 130.7 kyr plus or minus 9,400 years.

    Researchers at the site hold the view that the cobbles were used as hammerstones and anvils to break the mastodon bones for marrow. They also are of the opinion that the mastodon bones show obvious signs of breakage by hominins (early human ancestors). They theorize the “some form of Homo” genus was present in the area and in the Americas at an extremely early age prior to the generally accepted theory that the first humans entered into the Americas via the Bering Landbrdige arouns 14 kya. Actually, most researchers believe man entered into the Americas between 15-24 kya. Not only have remains of mastadons been found at this site but also remains of a Dire Wolf, Camel, Mammoth, and Ground Sloth.

    Critics contend that the lack of ancient human remains and lithic artifacts at the site indicate that this was something else and that the cobbles may have been altered by natural processes rather than being used as hammerstones and anvils. Further, critics also point out the lack of taphonomic evidence from the site, meaning fossil evidence, which is generally required as supportive evidence for “material culture” (meaning physical evidence of human culture).

    NOTE: I have added 10 pics from the site to my original post above.

    Like

  3. I had a curious thought last night. Could it be that we might be hindering our whole scope of confirming and dating sites by insisting that “Extraordinary Evidence” like stone weapons or tools must be found to verify sites like this? Would it be possible for these people to survive without advanced stone tools?

    What if these hammer stones and anvils were the extent of their stone technology? What if there actually are no more advanced lithics to be found for these particular people? There are other methods to take down an animal and process the meat.

    I think it is possible that the advancements in lithic technology could have been more advanced in one area and less in another and “period” dating sites by “one size fit’s all” lithic technology might not be as accurate as we trust it to be and rely on to verify sites.

    Just like now, there are still primitive cultures around the world that have no knowledge of, or practice modern technology. This could be the case with this site here in California. Just because old world technology might have been more advanced during this period doesn’t mean it was the same in Ca and these “Smoking Gun” items of evidence might never be found because they were actually never used..

    As Roberto has mentioned here before, in some cases we might not be finding these things because they actually may have used organic tools and weapons, and of course these would have decayed. Wood tools and weapons can be just as effective in taking down game and processing it. A sharpened stone tool is not actually necessary at all.

    Fire hardened, shaped and sharpened wooden lances are just as effective, maybe even faster to bleed out the animal, they would be just as effective if thrusted in and then pulled from the animal. In fact it is actually harder to remove a stone hafted weapon with the point still attached for a second stab or more than a sharp stick is. And more holes, more blood letting. Sharpened wood lances were used to stop horses in the old world up until a very late period.

    A small challenge might be skinning the animal but this can actually be done without sharp tools. Once the skin has been pierced it can literally be torn and peeled from the animal using a lever such as one of these wooden Lances just like debarking a tree. The skin is not pretty when you are done but I’m pretty sure these folks wouldn’t care during this period of early man survival.

    As for processing the meat, I’m sure we have all used a meat tenderizer. It is fairly easy to accidently pulverize right through a piece of meat in just a few blows. So to pulverize and remove meat from bone and piece it smaller with even just natural unworked cobble hammer stones and an anvil is completely viable. But these folks may have also made wooden hand axes that would have been even more effective for processing the meat from the bone.

    So in all this I think we might be making a mistake in thinking man could not survive and process game without or until they invented stone tools. And that dating sites using the standard gauge of lithic technology advancements for all locations could be inaccurate and misleading. Native Americans were still using stone tools during the same time period as when Rome was a great empire of advanced technology.

    What do you guys think?

    Liked by 1 person

  4. You raise a very good point JR and one I’ve thought about myself. Stone tools that I myself and many others have found are of the Oldowan type in the Americas (note that there are more advanced types to such as Achulean etc). These are very primitive as you know and they were used primarily by H. habilis but also by early H. erectus. That is, at least in Africa as far as we know. So, saying that the OOA is true and H. erectus migrated from Africa into Asia, and let’s say into the Americas too, it is highly possible that those H. erectus who entered into the Americas brought Oldowan stone tools with them and lagged behind in developing more sophisticated stone tools. This is also assuming that the first group of H. erectus who left Africa did so long before the accepted date. This group had only Oldowan tools and did not yet know of Achulean tools. That’s one scenario. The other is that it was H. habilis who first migrated out of Africa and let’s say made it into the Americas with their Oldowan tools. So, in either scenario, YES, the anvils and hammer stones would be their “weapons” which is all we would find at a kill site. Further, I believe these early humans not only hunted but also scavenged. So concerning this site was it not a kill site at all but a site to which scavenged remains of Mastodons were brought and consumed? Any of these scenarios is possible. So in answer to your question absolutely YES. H. habilis survived just fine without advanced stone tools via scavenging and I suspect early H. erectus using Oldowan tools did mostly the same.

    As you point out, “There are OTHER METHODS” to take down an animal and process the meat, as any hunter knows even today, I would add. Further, I do NOT believe ancient humans all advanced in unison in all places! Some, likely many, lagged behind until new arrivals came along with perhaps more advanced means (tools, etc). One size doesn’t fit all lol.

    You can kill an animal with a sharpened stick or branch from a tree when used as a spear as you know and all hunters know. You don’t have to have a stone point to kill anything! You can use big rocks to kill animals especially the old and the weak or the very young. As you say, “Wood tools and weapons can be just as effecitve in taking down game and processing it. A sharpened stone tool is not actually necessary at all.”

    Frankly, I think we ARE making a mistake by assuming all ancients had stone tool technology. I’m willing to bet some or many DID NOT! So if that is the case then we are missing a HUGE part of our history that is starring us right in the face!!!
    Great points JR and good “thinking OUTSIDE that old box”!! 🙂

    Like

    • Absolutely…I think we are missing out on some great opportunities of discovery in all this just as you explain Roberto. And scavenging as a primary source is a HUGE point! And there are indeed many ways to make a kill. Just look at the Buffalo Jump for example. And we don’t know the true habits of game back then either.

      This is a true story… I was hunting Deer during season and was of course armed with a firearm that would be far too drastic for small game. Small Game was also in season but it is very impractical and destructive to bag a Rabbit with a 30.06 as you know. It will blow it to bits. lol

      I wasn’t having very good luck at spotting any Deer even though I did find scat and followed a few. I began to think to myself that I should have also brought an appropriate firearm so that I might bag a couple Rabbits while I was out and at least go home with something in the cooler.

      So in hiking back to camp later in the afternoon I hopped down into a ravine with about 4 foot vertical walls and got the crap scared out of me! My fight or flight instincts immediately made me freeze in place because something had exploded from the bush right next to my foot.

      A second later I realized it was just a cottontail, but something interesting happened. The Rabbit ran up the ravine about 40 feet and found it’s self trapped in a box. The walls were too vertical and there was an overhang about ten feet back towards me creating a small covered cave.

      So I thought “Hey I got him cornered…I wonder if I can get him” Cave man style. I put down my Rifle and gathered up a couple medium sized Rocks and started easing towards him. As I got closer he realized he wasn’t going to get out and was trapped with nowhere to go.

      He started to panic and run around so much he was literally beating himself to death in there. He finally must have went into shock because before I could even get close enough to throw a rock at him he just keeled over on the ground and started kicking because he was indeed on his way out. I just walked up and picked him up.

      He had literally scared himself to death because he was cornered and I pushed the issue. But in that I got to wondering how sensitive the fight or flight instincts really were in some of the ancient animals. Could just putting them in a situation of such extreme fear that they just go into shock, fold up and fall over? We don’t know, but this would be factor and influence we don’t consider in all this

      Just binding their legs somehow to hobble them and then scaring the hell out of them could have brought them down if this were true. Same if it could be cornered and pummeled with rocks like you say here. The shock factor might have made them even more fragile and easier to take down than we think. Some may have even “Played dead” allowing themselves to just be picked up and then dispatched.

      So there may have been a lot of factors that actually made hunting quite a bit easier than we “assume” it was. Experiences and instincts in different species may have been more primary and less evolved than compared to the examples we use and see today. 🙂

      Like

      • Well you could have used the 30.06 on the thing and picked up all the pieces to make stew lol. Your right in that we don’t know the behavior of these prehistoric animals including Mastodons. They may have been like your rabbit. Cornered, scared, death. Cause of death? Fright and panic resulting in massive heart failure!

        One thing that gets me is we are always comparing then (prehistory) to now (history). We do that with our land masses, behavior, animals, sky, etc. And we do it EVEN though we know that things were NOT the same as they are today. This is one BIG reason we need to start thinking out of the box and expand our horizons, so to speak. Oh yes, I’m sure Mastodons and mammoths had some of the behaviors we see in modern elephants BUT I’m sure they had some we don’t see too. Who knows? Maybe at heart they were big sissies LOL! Scared of their own shadows!

        Playing dead is a common activity we see in many wildlife today. It’s an “old trick” in a last ditch effort to survive. Mastodons could have well used this trick but, sometimes, they played dead too long and man the hunter (?) moved in for the kill. Yes there may have been and most likely were a lot of factors involved that may have made hunting back then easier than it is today. For one thing, there were not as many people on the planet back then so these animals likely had no idea who or what we were. Did curiosity grasp them to the point that they failed to flee even when man launched his weapon at the creature? Some Pronghorns still do this today. They’ll stand and look at you as you basically walk right up to them! They are highly curious creatures to the point of literally being fatal.

        In terms of instincts we must also recognize our own. In our modern world of glass and mortar our sense are either lost or dulled. But, our ancestors didn’t have this problem and they depended on their instincts becuase, like all other animals, their lives depended on it. You had big preators lurking around such as the dire wolf who’d kill and eat a human ancestor in a heart beat.

        So, in trying to understand our ancient ones we have to try to put ourselves in their shoes. This is the same when we study cultures past or present. We have to attempt to see the world through their eyes and that isn’t always easy to do either.

        Short story………my great uncles “hero” was always Tarzan and in fact he made his life as close to the Tarzan in the original books as he possibly could. Apparently, when he was about 16-17 years old he made a spear out of an oak branch. Story goes, he went off one morning before dawn and was gone until around noon. He came back with a dead black bear he had killed that morning and he was butt naked lol!! He said he sat up in a pine tree and waited for that bear to come along (he’d been keeping an eye on it for a few weeks I guess). Around mid-morning here came the bear and stopped under the tree at which point he thrust the spear into the bear from the top down and killing it! And his weapon was nothing but that oak branch sharpened on one end! Of course this was in the 1930’s or 40’s when most people lived out in the middle of nowhere so you could do things like that on your own land. So, how many of our ancient ancestors did the SAME thing using rocks or sharpened branches or some other primitive “weapon”? What was funny is he’d basically made a Neanderthal thrusting spear to kill the bear with and it worked perfectly but in those days he didn’t even know what a Neanderthal was! Instinct guided him??? Maybe.

        Like

        • Great reply and story Roberto, thank you! I agree…it may have been plain old instincts we have imprinted through thousands of years of Positive and Negative experiences being passed down in our DNA like Barb mentioned about the fear of water. But these can indeed be overwritten when a more important priority situation to survive arises.

          But like you say they have been dulled. We have come to a point where these fight or flight instincts have become confused. And we have done it to ourselves out of boredom. As a culture we now crave, and are addicted to adrenaline rushes, just driving to the store can cause an adrenaline rush when someone cuts you off.

          We now bombarded ourselves with these rushes daily and even strive for them to get our kicks, so the self defense survival instincts they were actually designed for are on overload. I think we are now over taxing these so they have become insignificant and no longer useful to us like they once were.

          And I think we are already paying for it as a species. We don’t feel them or heed them anymore, It is possible they are warning us all day long about certain situations like getting ourselves cornered in a social situation and in the end not listening to our instincts just might be our demise. 🙂

          I would have liked, understood and respected your uncle very much, he was not the only one who would rather be running around in the wilderness butt naked! lol

          Like

          • He was actually quite a character. One day when I was a teenager I went over to his house to see what he was up to. He had a big log in his backyard and was hollowing it out (using modern tools however lol) He told me he was making a canoe. I thought WTH? I was sure the thing would never float! A few weeks later he called and asked me if I wanted to go with him out on the water. Of course I did. I got to his house and we loaded up his homemade canoe in the back of his truck. I was sure the thing would never float and thanked God I was a good swimmer as was he lol.

            We got to the river and launched the canoe with us aboard. The damned thing floated better than any canoe I’d seen to my amazement! Best canoe trip I was ever on! I never doubted him again. He also used to make spears and knives that looked like they came right out of Africa or South America. These things were fantastic and he could have made good money on them but he never sold not even one. They were for his personal pleasure only.

            When I was younger, he made a tomahawk out of stone and wood. The thing looked right out of museum! Don’t know what he did with it but it was something to see and looked very authentic.

            Finally, one time I went swimming with him in another river just above a little dam. We weren’t planning to go swimming as we stumbled upon the river and didn’t even know it was there. Off came his cloths and in the water he went! I jumped in the same. After being in the water for awhile along came some people who were going to picnic!! My concern was just how we were going to get out of the water and get our clothes. He had the solution! Out of the water he went stark naked and grabbed out clothes!! The people saw that sight and took off quickly LOL. We laughed all the way back to town that day. You should have seen the look on the faces of those people when he emerged from the water in the nude! The way he figured it was that if someone was offended by him it was THEIR problem not his.

            Like

            • lol, yep!!! We are born that way. what’s the problem? lol

              Sounds like a knowledgeable and practical man Roberto!

              I have to tell you though, I think that show “Naked and Afraid” is a waist of digital band width. I mean really? Under what scenario would they end up in the middle of a Jungle buck naked? Jump out of the shower right into the jungle? Plane full of nudists on the way to a beach went down? lol

              I like the survival part but these folks don’t even try hard. They would not last more than their short stay in the real world. I realize it is supposed to be a “Primal” situation but there are a couple things wrong. First, early man that might have normally gone naked had HAIR, a lot more than we do today. And you can bet the first invention after this was something to protect their private parts from BUGS. It is very insulting to the basic intelligence of early man. Even early man was much smarter than these modern dummies… lol

              I think the producer is a closet sadist! lol

              Like

              • I don’t watch it as I think it is ridiculous as you say. The one that got me was the “reality series” called “Survivor.” Here we have people “stranded” on an island with birds, fish, wild pigs, and other animals and they sit around eating rice? RICE? SERIOUSLY? If it were me I sure as hell wouldn’t be sitting around eating rice! LOL

                Like

                • Lol, Yep… I was thinking that too when I watched it! And that is the thing about the show I was talking about. They spend the whole stay building and maintaining a shelter when they should be out covering as much ground as possible every minute of the day chasing game for calories! The producer limits their “survival area” to one small plot of land when in the real world to survive you have to move fast and cover a lot of ground just to locate enough resources get by. Same as it is with any Predatory species now! lol

                  What scares me is the mental level that might call these shows entertainment! lol

                  Like

                • they really have pussified survivor, they even have thermos bottles this year to keep their beverages cool and refreshing. the next thing they will have instead of a bug eating competition, it will be a pie eating contest to go on a reward of pizza and burgers. the last “competition” involved some water and swimming and one of them couldn’t hoist her ass out of the water. 2 people had to come and hoist her out. it was an embarrassment to me as a human that can swim and hoist my ass out of the water.

                  in Nature it isn’t so beautiful all of the time, it is worse than gang warfare in the inner cities. getting shot over drugs is merciful compared to a well placed kick from a cloven hoof of an animal you want to kill to eat. in the face could shatter your jaw, or to the abdomen you could end up tripping on your own innards. how do you like them apples, pussies?

                  they don’t just eat rice either. anybody knows that down south they like their rice in many delicious dishes, and they like it with just butter and pepper. so on survivor they eat it with butter and pepper because they just won it at the last doughnut eating contest.

                  Like

                  • My survival training was in Panama and what you say here is absolutely true! lol We had a majority drop out and fail just because they kept falling into and being impaled by the Black Palms trying to get at the fruit. “Hey dummies, how about using a STICK!” lol

                    Like

  5. What surprises me is how many people think these “reality series” are real lol. God forbid I ever get stuck with one of them out in the wilds! Remember a few years ago when a couple of the men on Survivor killed the pig in the jungle? They got all kinds of shit for it from animal rights groups to the government. Finally, I thought, some REAL reality instead of rice!

    Like

    • Lol Yep that’s reality! Out of season, No license, No Pig Tag, No local parking permit, Etc. Etc.

      Speaking of reality… Randolf and I were kind of starting to feel good about how thin we were getting and you go off and bring reality back into the mix! lol

      I was getting ready to start a new comment too. But wanted to see how far it would let us go before it quit adding the “reply” button under the reply. apparently it goes on and on. I was in a website for awhile where it would let you take it all the way down to single characters and spaces all the way down. One reply would stretch could ten feet down the page! lol

      It’s a webmaster thing…I’m always testing stuff! lol

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s