20 comments on “Oral Traditions: Pacific Native Americans Sailed to Hawaii and Asia

  1. Seriously…you have sent me looking and digging for more Barb. Thank you!

    Hey…the mini Personal Bio is great!

    Like

  2. Like I said in the other thread these people knew the way back to Asia so I’m sure at some point they must have sailed from Asia to the New World where they established themselves. Question is when?

    BTW many archaeologists and anthropologists are now admitting that it is highly likely some of the people from Asia et al came to the New World by boat. The old land bridge/walking theory is changing and that is good because we are now employing LOGIC!

    BTW Barb this article is great 🙂

    Like

    • I am looking at the Hull and Sail design in these and find them very efficient in design. I lived on the Pacific coast for a few years as a teen and really got into sailing and sail boat design. These Hulls look to be just as efficient as modern sailboats. The true turning point in the history of sail design was when they finally designed them so that they could “tack against the wind” rather than just “running” with the same direction the wind was blowing.

      This innovative capability was huge in the advancement of Sailing. And even in sailing today it is almost impossible to achieve a tacking angle of less than 45 degrees against the wind direction. But these look like they can actually achieve this tacking angle! This is huge in it’s own right! And efficient hull design like this takes a very very long time to develop!

      Like

      • One boat that has always fascinated me was that used by the ancient Hawaiians. From what I understand some of these have sails but were highly maneuverable and almost impossible to tip over. They were also designed for long distance seafaring.
        hawaii_1
        hawaii_2

        The two below are Hawaiian voyaging canoes for long distance which are fantastic!!

        hawaii_3

        Like

        • Very cool pics! Yep the top one and the bottom one are both Catamarans! Catamarans are THE most efficient design ever invented! In fact there was a huge lawsuit that lasted a couple years Concerning allowing Catamarans to participate in the famous America Cup Sailboat race. The monohull tradition fought against these because they knew they had no chance against this design and it ended up changing everything about the race before it was over.

          The middle one is a Canoe with an outrigger. Larger outriggers had Crabclaw sail rigging and were also very efficient. They actually have super modernized outrig designs they race today. On the modern ones the outrig swivels forward and aft so that they can adjust them to fit the tack angle as needed for the most efficiency. These folks in the Pacific were way ahead of the folks on the other ponds and even the Mediterranean and biblical seas when it came to sail and hull design!

          The Phoenicians, the Scandinavians, the Middle Easterners, all of them lagged way behind the Pacific peoples!

          Like

          • Here’s a thought… I wonder if all this opposition to seafaring peoples in the Pacific comes from a deep historical hurt of pride and resentment because they were actually better at it much sooner than everybody else was? So they continue to discredit the idea that they could even sail on the Pacific at an earlier time frame? Back to basic human nature again… lol

            Like

        • Something I noticed about the top image…The sail rigging is probably not accurate. The rear Mainsail and rigging originated on the Nile and the front “Jib” sail was invented by the Europeans during a later era.

          Like

  3. So I asked myself “what about maritime technology on the other side of the Pacific pond?”. I ran across a couple you might be interested in reading Barb.

    Also take a look the Jomon link in this one:

    https://www.thoughtco.com/pacific-coast-migration-model-prehistoric-highway-172063

    Apparently the Canadians are a bit more honest about the truth:

    http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~vaucher/History/Prehistoric_Craft/

    An interesting one:

    http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/ancient/coastal-route.htm

    This one I am just about ready to read:

    http://www.transpacificproject.com/index.php/transpacific-migrations/

    I am having trouble finding out much about ancient coastal Russia and their watercraft, but still looking. 🙂

    Like

  4. So I asked myself “what about ancient maritime technology on the other side of the Pacific pond?”. I ran across a couple you might be interested in reading Barb.

    Also take a look the Jomon link in this one:

    https://www.thoughtco.com/pacific-coast-migration-model-prehistoric-highway-172063

    Apparently the Canadians are a bit more honest about the truth:

    http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~vaucher/History/Prehistoric_Craft/

    An interesting one:

    http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/ancient/coastal-route.htm

    This one I am just about ready to read:

    http://www.transpacificproject.com/index.php/transpacific-migrations/

    I am having trouble finding out much about ancient coastal Russia and their watercraft, but still looking. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    • It felt better to also donate while I was repenting for my recent sins in humor. lol 🙂

      Seriously though…that last link has some great stuff related to this thread! Search engines must be sanctioning Russian history because I am still having a problem with that area.

      Sorry for the double post, Something goofed while I was trying to post that.

      Liked by 1 person

        • I have been digging into the Jomon a bit more. I have heard about their culture but never investigated it very much. Now that I know more their history it poses a few questions for me when associating peoples of Eastern Asia and Russia with the land bridge theory and supposed first entry into North America. Something doesn’t make sense.

          These curiosities arise from their more advanced technology at a far earlier time. Apparently they too are thought to have come across a land bridge that connected Japan with the mainland. so one could figure that their very early technology was brought with them from the mainland. This indicates the mainland of East Asia and Russia may have also had this technology.

          Yet the earliest phase of three phases of the Jomon called the Incipient phase is thought to have begun around 16,500 yrs ago. Even at this early time these people were making pottery and using Bows and Arrows. And even though they hunted the biggest food source was Fishing and Shell Fish. Apparently the Fish/Shell Fish middens are very extensive.

          Now I have a problem with the idea that all these Fish were picked up or caught along just the Shoreline. They had to have had maritime capabilities to have accumulated this huge amount of Fish refuse. So I think they could float even before they are thought to have first came to Japan 16,500 yrs ago. And I think all this technology was also the same on the mainland all the way up into Northeastern Russia.

          But here is my main curiosity, Since they had this technology to make pottery, use Bows and Arrows, and most likely could float, why didn’t these already known technology advances come across the land bridge to the Americas with the Clovis? This was a pre-clovis culture in timeline right? The first entry should have also brought these already known technologies with them right?

          The first use of the Bow in early America wasn’t until 500 CE and apparently started in Iowa. And the oldest Pottery found in the Americas was in the Amazon Basin dated back to around 8,000 yrs ago. The oldest Pottery Found in North America was in the South East and is only dated back to around 4,000 yrs ago.

          So I have to question if anyone ever even came across the North West at all? Did they take a vow to never use this pre-known technology before they crossed into the Americas? Something just doesn’t make sense in the theory when it comes to timelines in pre-known early technology.

          Like

          • Pretty sure they would have brought their technology with them. They would have been foolish not to have. I think the theory in general is flawed and needs some rethinking.

            Like

  5. again with another of my Nova documentaries. there was one about the first time in a long, long time they sailed a catamaran from Hawaii to i think it was Tahiti, using the “old ways” the rise and set points of stars on the horizon, plus the sun during the day and whatever other trade secrets they have. there were some other techy more “modern” people along, with their gadgets in case they got lost. i remember there was also some arguing too. my impression is the techy people were scared and wanted to check their e-mails or something. they made it without checking in, and as i understand they are taking these voyages regularly. ( without the thechy scaredy cats) of course due to the time it takes you have to bring live plants and animals for food. like way back then. no refrigeration or indoor plumbing.

    i wish i had the money to start a new form of eco-tourism. how cool would it be to sail the oceans on one of these vessels? camp on some uninhabited island? not to mention as a woodworker these boats to me are a work of art, to say the least. also i’m not scared to eat fresh meat and vegetables. i’m actually scared to go on a cruise ship, they seem much more prone to sinking, and if an engine stalls, guess what? no more indoor plumbing! imo. just sayin”

    Liked by 1 person

      • Me too! I would love to do something like this!

        Unfortunately current legal requirements to get the operations permits and License tend to squash dreams like this. Not enough passengers per trip to pay for the required Liability Insurance they will force you to maintain. This is why cruise ships got bigger and bigger, their insurance rate kept going up…

        Sometimes It sucks to be a realist. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

  6. your right J.R. maybe we should partner with Elon Musk and his space x thing. i think our tourism would be cheaper than going to Mars.

    Like

    • Big corporations like that are always looking for a “division” that actually loses money on purpose so that they can claim a much needed loss on their taxes. So this might actually work and be welcomed by Musk! lol

      But historically speaking…The first insurance Companies were actually set up to cover Maritime Passenger Vessels. And Maritime Law is still being enforced even on land. Ever wonder why some States like California use the term “Vessel” in the legal wording on Vehicle Titles instead of the word “Vehicle” or other?

      Because there is no Constitutional legal right to license, tax and regulate vehicles, or horseless carriages. or wagons. But under Constitutional Maritime law there are provisions to legally regulate “Vessels” on both land and sea. Sneaky isn’t it?

      Like

  7. Pingback: Seafaring and the Haida People | Peron Rants

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s