17 comments on “Things to Consider………..

  1. Absolutely! I think current assumptions fall short with the true intellectual capacity, ingenuity, practicality and physical abilities of early man. I think we just do not give them enough credit for being even more intelligent than we presume, and the list is quite long.

    “All early man were hydrophobic”, “Until they developed vocal capacity they could not communicate with any intelligence”, “There were no intelligent civilized cultures until the invention of agriculture and the wheel”. Etc. Etc.

    I watched a documentary years ago that made me question the mainstream assumptions about the lack of ingenuity in early man. It was about how one of the Inuit clans had an ingenuous method of transportation when relocating from one area of ice pack to another.

    When they were ready to pack up and go they would start catching fish. The fish were laid out in a linear fashion and water was applied to freeze them together. This was repeated in layers to build two equal length “runners” and “crossbars” creating a very sophisticated sled to haul their minimalist possessions.

    They had even transported quite a bit of protein needed for when they reached their destination because the sled was made of fish. But of course early man could not have been this intelligent because we have not found any evidence of these sleds in an archeological dig. 🙂

    Like

  2. “In the olden times our grandfathers rode on fish from the sea to cross the vast whiteness of ice”.

    An example of a “mythical” metaphor explaining fact in this . 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Coyotes and wolves communicate with intelligence and without language as do most other animals, birds, fish, insects soooo……that kind of blows the language theory out of the water LOL. Frankly, I believe the Hopi who say we are not the first to have civilization such as we see today.

    I believe I saw the same documentary about the Inuit and there are plenty more examples of such ingenuity and intelligence. I am sure ancient man was the same and were not idiots. Surely, some Homo erectus observed an insect floating down a stream on a leaf and a “light bulb” clicked on in his head and he built a boat. And from there the rest was history, as they say LOL. The claim is that we haven’t found any boat remains or other artifacts to support the water crossing notion. How could we find such when the ocean levels were lower and today that evidence is deep under the water? IF ancient man was a moron such as academia likes to paint him to be then surely he was not intelligent enough to bring us to today! He would have been eaten as prey by predators with intelligence.

    When we look at tribal societies today we see a lot of intelligence and innovation. Some come up with novel ways to cope with their often harsh environments so they and their people can continue to survive. These things are NOT the things of ignorance but of intelligence and creativity! But we close our eyes to it blinded by our own ethnocentrism? How absolutely arrogant and blind WE are! We evaluate other cultures and peoples based on our own culture and peoples and in the process WE lose……a lot.

    Like

  4. Whole lot of truth there Roberto! There is another factor never considered in all this, and until a person has actually been in a survival situation they can never fully understand it. Basic primitive survival is based on a very slim daily profit or loss margin of Calorie count, so Conservation, Productivity, Practicality and use of Time will make the absolute difference between life and death.

    In a situation like this one can never waste calories on anything but pursuing a profit of calories or creating ways to conserve calories. So knowing this we have to look at how some more technologically advanced cultures have judged less advanced cultures as ignorant and inferior. Example, the Anglos coming to north America and finding the Natives to be “ignorant savages” because they did not use Metal Tools or have the Wheel.

    Well…were they ignorant or being practical? We know they had knowledge of mining, smelting and working Bronze in the Great Lakes area and in South America. We also know that cultural interaction was more wide spread than most would think so why did they not all use Metal Tools? A dependence on Metal Tools would demand a huge process based on an expenditure of calories in mining, smelting, working and trading for more Metal Tools which would have been limited in availability.

    For most this would in the end be a huge unnecessary loss versus a profit in calories. Why spend all the time and energy to make Metal when every Individual can just reach down and find a workable piece of stone just about anywhere that will function just as well and be worked out in a very short time? A very high percentage of Atlatl Dart Points and Arrow Points were lost during hunting anyhow so what happens when you run out? Stone was just much much more practical, conservative and “independent”.

    Why not the Wheel? I’m sure they understood the concept because they practiced “Ball” Games and “Hoop” games in a lot of cultures. But using the Wheel would mean the need to build and maintain Roads! With most Tribes being migratory in the perpetual chase for the very slim profit margin of Calories, all of this would be very very impractical to say the least.

    There was also a factor of Spirituality behind these. These European inventions were born of greed and gluttony, These were two ideals not practiced at all by most Native cultures so they were unnecessary on a Spiritual base anyhow. I personally think we could learn a lot from these examples if man would like to continue as a species. It worked very well for them for thousands of years!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. The Inca knew the concept of the wheel but they did not use it, at least not widely. Perhaps they thought carrying one’s own burdens was beneficial or perhaps the beasts of burden worked better than a wheeled cart on their roads. Obviously, they thought something along these lines but considered the wheel obsolete or undesirable for use. Does this make them less intelligent? Less sophisticated? Less cultured? I do not think so. They simply had a different way of thinking and seeing the world than we do. Things they considered important, necessary, and workable were not the same as we consider such today. Their values and morals were different and their world view was different. Yet, here with the Inca we have a high civilization comparable to many in Europe. Their road system was as good as or even maybe better than that of the ancient Romans!

    The Aztecs, the Hopewell, the Iroquois the, Cherokee, the Pueblos, the Maya and many more Native American people were sophisticated peoples who were intelligent and built high civilizations some comparable or even surpassing those of Europe IMO. These societies were anything BUT the societies of “savages”!!

    Finally, yes, saving energy for the hunt, for the seasonal migrations, for fighting, for building homes and shelters is intelligent. Only fools expend their energies on worthless tasks or pleasures. Most hunter-gatherer societies lived a dangerous existence being vulnerable to wild animals who would kill them for prey. The hunt was vital to the continuation of the tribe/society and, thus, was of utmost importance. Good points JR and thanks for your comments.

    Like

  6. I’m sure that there were times of plenty when certain calories were in season and the chore of preparing and preserving them to survive the winter was caught up. This would have been the times for celebration, ceremony and recreational games but the chores always got done first as a priority for practical survival.

    Your example of the extensive Qhapaq Nan Inca road system is a super example Roberto! 25,000 Kilometers of road most of it strategically paved where needed most to prevent washing away. I have followed quite a bit of this system using Google earth and it is incredible!

    When I really started to dig into this huge achievement I also started wondering what factors were involved causing it to be constructed as it is and here are some curiosities and details that make a lot of sense based on practicality.

    My first question was why was it built along the spine of the mountain ridges? A couple things that factor in would be that the terrain everywhere but along the ridges is so rough that it is nearly impossible to navigate, and still is today. In fact most modern roads through these areas follow along side this ancient road system as the most efficient path.

    And as you also know, I am sure that that observation of native Lama and other animals was the beginning. Animals always take the path of least resistance when creating natural migratory trails everywhere in the world. And most game trails naturally follow ridge lines. So the practical routing for the Inca was already in place and being used by both man and beast for thousands of years, all they had to do was widen them a bit, add bridges, steps, and paving where needed.

    As you pointed out they did have knowledge of the wheel, so why did they not design this road system for the wheel? I realized they actually had no practical means to pull wheeled vehicles with in the first place! Even this fantastic road system route still had its challenges of steep inclines and deep Gorges that had to be dealt with and all they had for beasts of burden were Lamas!

    They had no heavy beasts of burden like Oxen or horses that might have the strength to pull heavy loads up steep inclines like in the old world. They had a choice when using Lama, Team up 10 Lama to pull a small cart full or just pack 10 Lama individually as pack animals with the same amount of net load. Of course it was a no brainer, Eliminate the weight of the cart, Count on the natural sure footedness of the Lama and also eliminate probably ten thousand times more time, effort and resources building the road system.

    Can you just imagine how much more of a challenge this would have been to facilitate the wheel? Bigger more sturdy Bridges, very extensive earth works and maybe even tunnels just to make a road system mild and level enough to use, and more importantly, “control” wheeled vehicles that they had no practical beasts to pull in the first place. In fact the challenge would have been so great they probably would have never even considered doing it at all if they had to build it with the wheel in mind!

    Yep…the Inca Road system is probably one of the best examples of practical ingenuity and problem solving achievements in history! thank you for pointing it out as an example Sir! In fact in my Astro-Archaeology investigations I have been chasing side roads from this system East into the Amazon in search of probable areas for lost settlements! All roads lead to “Somewhere”. lol

    Like

  7. The Inca along with all other tribal peoples lived close to nature. They learned from nature and tried to be a part of it rather than subdue it as we do today in our modern societies. Nature was not seen as the enemy of man and this goes not only for Native Americans but all tribal peoples around the world from the Celts to the Mongols to all others. I am sure you already know JR that when one lives in harmony or balance with nature it brings about a whole new mindset and a whole new way of doing things that OPPOSE much of what modern society does.

    This “nature lifestyle” was how the Inca lived and I bet they designed the wheel and thought something like, “Bah! Worthless!”. As you say, use of the Llamas was much more practical and feasible in their environment whereas the wheel was not. Not using the wheel was a stroke of ingenuity and intelligence by the Inca even though we think it mysterious or foolish in modern society.

    I notice an article on AO concerning the discovery of a 2000 year old Mayan road in Guatemala that rivals the old Roman roads. That’s just what I said yesterday in fact. It, like the Inca roads, follow the path of least resistance just like animal migration trails.

    We moderns especially in the West have separated ourselves from nature and we no longer understand it or its ways. We have created fake “forests” of steel and concrete and secluded ourselves in them. Most among us only get as close to nature as taking a stroll through the city park! We fear nature and view it as something to be conquered and subdued instead of befriended. And the result of this?

    There is an old theory in Anthropology that says our technology is way up here yet mentally man is still way down there and this is why we see so many social problems and deviance in modern society. We have not evolved towards all this high technology, in other words.

    Thank you for your knowledgeable and insightful comments that are thought provoking. Only now I wish more people who view this site would join the conversation to make it more interesting.

    Link to AO article about the Mayan roads in Guatemala:

    http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/2000-year-old-maya-superhighway-discovered-jungle-guatemala-007350

    Like

  8. Yep…that discovery was also posted about a month or more prior to this article also at AO. I pointed several towards it over the last couple weeks. I LIKE THE LIDAR! I wish it was accessible to everyone like Google Earth! lol.

    It would greatly help me in my Chase of the Inca side Roads and yet found settlements!

    Just so you know I am also a webmaster and have a couple of unrelated domains of my own. I have been posting your site in as many related forums as I am allowed. 🙂

    Are you currently teaching man? Teacher…Tell them kids to get over here!
    I would love to help you as much as I can engage in expanding critical thinking skills!

    Treasure hunts for history are great! I do this with my 10 yr old Granddaughter. I give her a history subject she has never heard of and a place for her to find related to the subject. Two days later she emails me with a picture of the place from google earth. “Is this it Grandpa?”.

    See…she first had to do homework into who and what I was talking about in the first place. So I try to give her another one and she says “Wait…I am not done checking this one out!”. GREAT! lol

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Thank you JR 🙂 I teach adults and at times do seminars. I am glad to see an adult educate their children/grandchildren and this needs to be done much more. Schools today are basically indoctrination centers IMO. Parents and grandparents need to educate their children and grandchildren and expose them to their culture and heritage as well as expand their minds so they develop critical thinking skills and just no the rot public ed feeds them.

    Like

  10. I guess I shouldn’t look at it this way, but Adults who are 35 or younger are kids to me.

    I am elated to find you using Keywords like Public Education Indoctrination Centers. Even though heretical they are My sentiments exactly! I would even include the phrase “Social Engineering”. I fought against this with my Kids and now with my Grandchildren! I truly believe the dumbing down of our young minds is a very serious and real problem. It is headed towards failure!

    Pink Floyd figured it out when I was still in school with his song “The Wall”. It is so fitting with the current trends. The exploitation and manipulation has become a painful reality. All personal biased political ideals and creed from any source has no place in our schools. And until these young minds are at least in high school…Just let them be Kids while they can. They will have to deal with these problems soon enough.

    Hey!…Teacher!…Leave those Kids Alone!…All in All it’s just…another Brick in the Wall!

    Like

    • I believe in calling it for what it truly is LOL. Our education system is nothing more than indoctrination and social engineering designed to make our children and grandchildren non-thinkers and passive conformists to whatever is dished out. That’s essentially what Alicia says below and she’s absolutely correct. Pink Floyd and “The Wall” (still fantastic by the way) indeed did figure it out long ago. Perfect!!

      I agree. We need to let our children be children and stop pushing them to be adults too early. God knows they’ll have enough of the crap in time!

      Love your last line JR. Now thanks to you I can’t get the tune out of my head LOL…..

      Like

    • What a fascinating discussion you have been having! I see a couple like-minded souls here. It is obvious to me as well that early hominids were certainly not just a group of dumb brutes banging two rocks together – the archaeological record hasn’t been able to depict everything!

      Regarding language, with something so intangible as the spoken word archaeological material can’t explain the origins of speech fully. Studies like the one J.R. Bentley mentions on the baboon vowel-like segments give me hope and inspiration that perspectives are changing – albeit a little slower than I would like. 😉 I was watching the story of Kanzi yesterday and was just enthralled by his advanced language aptitude – and that’s with human intervention – just imagine what great apes and early hominids got up to without modern teaching methods!

      While you’ve certainly discussed a variety of intriguing topics here, Roberto makes mention to an interesting point I’d also like to go back to, if I may, – that technology has outpaced the current human mental state. I can definitely see this in so many areas of modern life.The fact that the education system is failing so many cannot just be a coincidence either. There are certainly intelligent people who become teachers – but they’re often held back by strict restrictions in the classroom (speaking from experience). Alternative education methods are still lagging in general compared to the rote-memorization techniques one sees in most classrooms around the world. Getting students outside and exploring, encouraging critical thinking and that they follow their interests is not what most schools would like. Quiet and obedient future citizens seems to be the general goal…of course there are always exceptions as well. (Thankfully)

      The question then begs itself – how much longer can humanity hold on to these outdated ideas? Change and advancement is necessary as individuals AND as a collective group.

      Like

      • Alicia first thank you for your comments and welcome. You’re absolutely right! Archaeology has not been able to depict everything in the record. In fact, there is a lot of guess work and assumption that may be all wrong. I have never accepted the idea that we modern humans got here where we are today thanks to brute ancestors who lacked intelligence. Obviously, this was not the case or our species would have not survived in nature which is often harsh.

        Regarding speech there are now all kinds of theories regarding language and all with no general agreement. In fact, we just don’t know how language came to be and the archaeological record doesn’t seem to be telling us the full story either.

        Our education system is a sham in my opinion. We used to teach student how to be critical thinkers. Now we teach them to be conformists and to question nothing they are told. That’s not education. That’s indoctrination! Yes, thankfully there are exceptions and those exceptions need our support.

        I see the “old world” paradigms changing. Slowly but at least change is in the air and I welcome it with open arms. Our old ways of doing things are no longer working and humanity is being forced to come up with new ways and that sort of change is good I believe. I also think this change holds the next step in our advancement as a collective group of humanity. One might say it hold our next step in our evolution. It is often interesting to watch it all happening but at the same time frustrating that the process moves along slowly. I’d like to see it speed up but, perhaps, that would not be best for us in the end.

        Like

      • Welcome Alicia! Thanks for joining in! Good to see someone else come share fresh thoughts with Roberto and I. Roberto has some great directions he is headed towards here on his blog and it definitely warrants some more traffic and participation!

        I agree with you about educators. There are indeed some great unbiased Educators who take pride in their work and do care if they help subjects progress in thought. So it would not be right to stereotype them as all the same.

        Unfortunately, they too are railed by policy as you mention. It boils down to extortion for funding. Just like a Bill in Congress, “Riders” and “Conditions” are attached to the curriculum before approval in funding. This is what needs to end.

        With due credit given those who try to remain unbiased while educating, I still see a majority who have taken the liberty of granting themselves Parental Rights with an agenda of pushing their own personal Creed and Bias. They have no right.

        I understand that much of this stems from an overall lack of Parenting from the Parents themselves in our current society. But in “Public” Education systems there should be a list of “don’t touch that” biased ideals of agenda from all sources.

        Just as Christianity and other Faiths are rightfully not allowed to even be whispered in in Public facilities, so it should be with personal adult ideals like Marxism, Veganism, Alternative Sexual Preferences, Etc. No source has the right to sway innocent young minds in biased directions like this in a public facility supported by tax payers.

        You might not believe this, but my family has already had our bouts with these very “Adult ideals” being pushed on my Grandchildren as early as when they started Kindergarten! This should absolutely be Criminal!

        It appears we are all in agreement here, Just let them alone be Kids while they can. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

    • I love baboons! They are my favorite in fact. I have long believed their sounds are communications and YES some of their sounds DO sound like human vowels. I’m glad to see this research going on and hope it will continue.

      Like

      • Wow! I went digging into Baboons and even though they say we are closer related to Chimps by DNA, The similarities between us and Baboons are hard to deny!

        Liked by 1 person

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s